Journeys to Leadership

Jennifer Dorian
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Jennifer Dorian: [00:00:00] You know, realize that your, your daily work life is not like a report card and you're not going to, don't strive for perfection. Strive for excellence because perfection is highly overrated. Number one, we can't be innovative if we're striving for perfection. Doing new things, new ways is always going to be messy.

President Zak: Hello and welcome to Agnes Scott College's podcast, Journeys to Leadership, where we explore the paths of inspiring women leaders from around the globe. I'm Leo Kadiazak, president of Agnes Scott and the host of this podcast. I hope that our guest stories not only encourage you, our listeners and leaders of today and tomorrow, but they also inspire you as you take the next steps in your own journey.

President Zak: Today's guest likes to create things, lasting connections, award winning work, meaningful solutions to [00:01:00] challenges, impacting her community and yours. She has spent her career nurturing brands, businesses, and people toward thinking big about growth and innovation, first in food service at Pizza Hut and Coca Cola, then shaping entertainment channels at Turner Networks.

President Zak: As part of the executive team at Turner Broadcasting, Dorian helmed successful brand positioning pivots for both TNT and TBS, and launched the first streaming service for global arthouse cinema, Filmstruck, with the Criterion Collection, while leading Turner Classic Movies. Since 2001, Dorian has been doubling down on the ATL as president and CEO of WABE, Atlanta's choice for NPR, PBS, and local news and storytelling.

President Zak: She oversees all the operations and strategic planning for WABE 90. 1 FM, WABE [00:02:00] TV, Transcripts provided by WAPE and WABE. org, including raising expectations and funds for the not for profit media station's digital transformation. Dorian and her 90 person team are amplifying Atlanta by ramping up local arts and culture programming, expanding local news, and providing digital access for all.

President Zak: WAPE's mission is to inform, inspire, reflect, and empower the greater Atlanta community. Please join me in welcoming the president and CEO of W. A. B. E. Jennifer Dorian. Thank you for joining us on Journeys to Leadership, Jennifer. We're so excited to have you. Thank you for having me here. It's a pleasure.

President Zak: Leadership doesn't just happen. It's a journey. During our time together, we want to explore your journey. The ups, the downs, all of it. We're as close as we can get. So let's begin. mission. It's to[00:03:00]

President Zak: inform, inspire, reflect, and empower the greater Atlanta community. What does that mean to you?

Jennifer Dorian: Oh, yes. Well, as you mentioned, I am a nearly native of Atlanta. We can get into all of that later. and I just think that informing, inspiring, reflecting, and empowering is the ultimate mission of public media in general.

Jennifer Dorian: And here in Atlanta, we have an extra, uh, opportunity to reflect our whole community, it's such a diverse, vibrant, growing region with so much to offer and so many challenges. So, um, I think it is unique to work in public media in Atlanta. Because we are a fast growing place with so much promise and our public media needs to catch up to that opportunity.

Jennifer Dorian: We're not as strong of a, um, operation as, say, what you might find in Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, New York. And yet we're number six, now we're number [00:04:00] six in the United States. We have this big opportunity to be a powerhouse station serving the community. Um, so for me, it's, it is about the specialness of Atlanta.

President Zak: Well, you mentioned the fact that you're from Atlanta and I want to talk more about what's happening today, but let's go back a little bit. What was it like growing up in Atlanta and where in Atlanta did you grow up? Oh,

Jennifer Dorian: sure. Well, to start with, um, you know, I was, uh, my name's Jennifer, so it was the number one name in all of the 70s, so you already know I'm a kid from the 70s.

Jennifer Dorian: And my, you gotta start with, I'm the oldest child of my two parents who started out their young family in a small town in Texas, San Angelo, Texas. And my dad was a, um, general assignment newspaper reporter, and my mom was a social worker. Ah, so

President Zak: this reporting is in your blood, I see. That's great. It is

Jennifer Dorian: definitely a theme.

Jennifer Dorian: You hear through my family history, although I never worked a day in a newsroom in my life, which we can talk about as well, but, um, so in the media business, you move from smaller market to larger [00:05:00] market to larger market. And so my growing up, I lived in St. Angelo, Texas, Austin, Texas, Dayton, Ohio. And then when I, um, was 12, I moved to Atlanta, but gosh, now I've been here over four decades And, um, I do consider myself Atlanta through and through I lived in, uh, you know, had a lot of change growing up.

Jennifer Dorian: My parents, um, not only did we change cities, but my parents got divorced and they had joint custody. And so every week of my life, I went to two different homes, two different neighborhoods, two different subcultures, two different. And I wound up going to four different elementary schools. So changed, I think as a little kid was a big part of my life.

Jennifer Dorian: And that really had a big impact on me. I, I think I'm good at change, but I also think I started out life really seeking conformity because I would get into the school, figure out, okay, what's the vibe here? How do people act? I want to fit in. And so I was very addicted to being a conformist. [00:06:00] And that came to be an important part of growing up as a leader and as a corporate person is like, wow, you have to really work hard to get back in touch with your uniqueness and what makes you different in the room and have the courage to just be an independent thinker.

Jennifer Dorian: Right. So. Um, When I was 12, to answer your question, I moved to Sandy Springs. And what's really fun about this interview, I'm still in Sandy Springs, Georgia. I went to, I went to Riverwood High School and, um, a public school in Fulton County. And that's down the street from me, but I, I've been driving into Midtown and, and Downtown.

Jennifer Dorian: Um, for all these decades for different jobs and different, um, educational experiences, et cetera.

President Zak: Well, I want to explore a little bit. You mentioned that you became accustomed to change, but also it seems you developed some of those skills that are so important, um, the listening skill, the observation skills when you were moving around to different, different cities and different schools.

President Zak: [00:07:00] So do you think that was something that really helped you in your career?

Jennifer Dorian: One thousand percent, you know, the, the ability to be comfortable in different rooms. Um, my parents had two very different lifestyles and so socioeconomic diversity, um, different, like you said, different, um, peer groups, different, uh, groups, people you want to influence.

Jennifer Dorian: So, yeah, I think my emotional intelligence got training on the, uh, playing a lot of games in the apartment complex, as well as going to soccer practice. So, you know, I've always. Um, I've always been grateful that I had a lot of change I could see in some of the people, like my husband had a very stable situation, same house, same schools the whole time.

Jennifer Dorian: And I was, I always reflected on, wow, that's really different orientation to change. Same thing for my girls. They did go to the same school, their entire, um, young experience. So I think it's a gift to be comfortable with change. [00:08:00] And like you said, you have to be, uh, you, you gain those life skills, coping skills of like being very observant.

Jennifer Dorian: And probably sometimes to a fault, right, wanting to fit in, but, um, I'm a recovering conformist.

President Zak: Well, I have to say you also have had a variety of different paths, um, that you've taken throughout your leadership. You started in business and, you know, then you are now in the not for profit space and a very different industry.

President Zak: So tell us a little bit, one, what did you imagine yourself doing when you were younger? Um, and then of course you're still young today. Um, but, um, and then how did, how did that path evolve?

Jennifer Dorian: Yeah. Well, I always love people's life stories make sense. Looking backwards, right? It never makes that much sense looking forward, but so as a young, young person, I wanted to be a singer that never went anywhere, um, because I was a chicken, but then, um, I wanted to

President Zak: sing a [00:09:00] few bars for us today.

Jennifer Dorian: Maybe by the end, we'll see. Um, I wish I knew an Agnes Scott fight song, but anyway, uh, so for me, I wanted to be a singer that that was a chicken. I think I don't think I had the gumption to do that for a living or in public. And then I wanted to be a doctor because I had been involved in some people in my family having a lot of medical issues and I had seen what it's like to be in the medical field.

Jennifer Dorian: But when I went to Emory university as pre med to study medicine again, in undergrad, I did terribly in organic chemistry. And I was like, Uh, message from the universe, that's not going to work out. So I was a slow bloomer. I did not know what I wanted my major to be. I couldn't figure it out. So fortunately for me, I took a class in economics called microeconomics and I loved microeconomics.

Jennifer Dorian: It's, of course, the study of how people spend their time and their money. And I thought, wow, you can, you're kidding me. This is a field of expertise and you can get paid for understanding how people choose their groceries or, um, where they're going to live or what phone [00:10:00] service to have. So. So, um, that got me interested in branding and right out of Emory, I went for a master's degree in business and I've specialized in, in branding.

Jennifer Dorian: And so for me, while you're right, it wasn't business. I always really came at it from a consumer psychology and microeconomic standpoint of how do people make choices. And so that got me really interested in, um, brand identities. It's awareness, cognitive, psychology. And that has always helped me whether I was selling pizza, Coca Cola, television, or even today selling the idea of the facts and the truth in public media.

Jennifer Dorian: It's still about what's your premise, what's your promise to the end user. And how are you bringing value and utility to their lives? So that, that's been the through line for me.

President Zak: Well, I was going to say, speaking of branding, if you ever want to go back to medical school, I have to tell you that Agnes Scott has graduate programs that prepare people for medical school.

President Zak: Um, and we have amazing success. Last year, [00:11:00] 100 percent of qualified students got into medical school from those programs. That's amazing. Just let us know if you change your mind. But you're doing a fabulous job in what you're doing right now. So, um, so let, let me ask you, through this process, um, people always want to know, was there a particular mentor or someone who helped you along the way?

President Zak: Gosh, so

Jennifer Dorian: many people that I think for every person you interview on this podcast. I'm sure we all have champions mentors coaches Maybe even people who are unsatisfied they they can help you along your way For me. I had many great bosses both men and women Most of my bosses have been men and most of my bosses have been extremely positive in my development Um, they taught me to be, each of them different lessons.

Jennifer Dorian: One of my bosses, Steve Coonan, who I worked for for 18 years in two different companies, I think he really taught me how to be more courageous and speak up and be an, you know, be an independent [00:12:00] thinker. And that being unique is more valuable than being just another person who's reiterating the corporate company line.

Jennifer Dorian: So I really appreciate the courage, encouragement to be courageous. Um, Other, you know, other people were peers and other senior women who you could observe doing it all. And you were just like, Oh, it is possible, you know, to have a family, to, uh, be a great home family member and a great friend. Um, and I, I, as a new colleague at work at the same time, what I think I observed is that flexibility is really essential and trust.

Jennifer Dorian: So for me, I've always had success in environments where there was mutual trust in mutual accountability and personal responsibility, but not micromanagement or babysitting each other. Just really trusting each other. So those are some things I remember having very personal. overt conversations about my bosses and my mentors.

President Zak: So tell me how is it that you knew it was time to make a [00:13:00] change? Did it come to you? Did you go to it? Oftentimes people don't know that. Yes, I should do this next thing. Super. So I think in

Jennifer Dorian: careers, we can drift around and find the best opportunities. And sometimes we let the, And so we have to be able to see conditions determine what's going to be our course.

Jennifer Dorian: And that's not good. We want to be our own best agents. I remember learning the word in a women's leadership class, agentic. Be agentic, be intentional, be your own best agent. And to do that, we have to be, you know, truthfully observing the environment we're in. What are the needs? Where are there gaps? Where might we succeed where others are not?

Jennifer Dorian: What's happening in the whole system? And so if you get in a situation where those, you know, variables are not serving you well. You have to be intentional about getting out and navigating yourself to the business unit, the boss who's going to be a champion, the business unit with growth, the best project, the wow project.

Jennifer Dorian: I think it's really important to be, um, plan full and [00:14:00] intentional and not just Oh, you know, bouncing around for the best jobs in my career, I've always taken sort of a targeted approach and not a scattershot approach to job hunts. I would research heavily what companies attracted me either because of their creativity or their culture or their resources or their legacies or their mission.

Jennifer Dorian: And their, um, Once I got in there, I would really like, when I was interviewing for Pizza Hut, I was, I was one man down. I didn't have as much job experience as all the other candidates. I didn't go to an Ivy League school, but I know I'm the only candidate who, when interviewed, three Pizza Hut managers before my job interview.

Jennifer Dorian: Oh,

President Zak: good for you, that is, what a great idea.

Jennifer Dorian: So I always tell people looking for jobs, I'm like, just be like, total rifle approach. Like, I am obsessed with Company X, I'm going to learn everything about Company X, I'm going to talk to people who work at Company X, I'm going to, um, be a consumer of them, I'm going to be a secret shopper in every way I can, I'm going to make notes, you know, you want them to think, oh my gosh, this person is so motivated, or are they a [00:15:00] stalker?

President Zak: But, um, You're a researcher, we love that.

Jennifer Dorian: That's right. I continue to preach that to folks, that you want to be your own best agent and find the companies that inspire you and seem like a place you would thrive. And then, you know, be determined.

President Zak: That's wonderful. Were there things that surprised you about yourself as you're going through the journey?

Jennifer Dorian: Oh, definitely. I think I, I was such a joiner and such a happy joiner to when I joined Pizza Hut, when I joined Coke, when I joined Turner, all three of those, I was a company, you know, rah rah. And I think that's really positive. But. It was a journey for me, as I said, to go from this is the way we do things at Koch or this is the way we do things at Turner to, oh, you know, there's a better way possibly for us to do this.

Jennifer Dorian: Let's have some tension around this subject. One of, Steve Koonin, one of my best mentors, said, I used to always have the phrase, oysters only make pearls when they're irritated. [00:16:00] And I see today you're wearing some purple pearls. They're beautiful. Thank you very much. And, uh, what a great metaphor for all the things that can happen when, um, we, when we sit with creative tension and we let it do its work, you can trust the process that something better is going to come out.

Jennifer Dorian: So I think I had to grow up in that sense of colleagues and peers that work together well don't always agree and that it's okay to have some tension to help bring forth better creative solutions or better ideas. So that was one area. Another is just learning to modulate your style so that you can work with all kinds of people.

Jennifer Dorian: You know, I might be working with a very introverted person and I'm, I'm extremely extroverted to a challenge and I have to, um, tell myself to be quiet, whereas others need to speak up, for example. So like learning to modulate your style, to work with other people, um, to slow down and explain your concepts perhaps, or, or be more data [00:17:00] driven if that's, if that's You know, what the task or the team calls for.

Jennifer Dorian: So I think I've changed a ton over the decades.

President Zak: How did you learn to do that? Is it, did you read, did you have coaching?

Jennifer Dorian: How did you learn? I'm glad you asked that. I think, um, first of all, I am a huge reader and in preparing for this, I thought, wow, I used to really read a ton of business books and self improvement books and try to download software into my mind about how to work with introverts or, you know, how to rebrand, how to build a brand or.

Jennifer Dorian: So I, I hope that's still something that people are motivated to do. I know we live in a, um, fast media world where you digest things much quicker and shorter than a whole business book, but I do think that's helped me grow up and mature in my style, um, and my success or ability to work effectively with others.

Jennifer Dorian: And then another thing is just life experience. And then my companies all offer different, coaching [00:18:00] programs. And I would say in my life, I've had many opportunities. I've only turned down maybe one. So always go for it. If someone's encouraging you to apply to something or take a class or read a book, say yes first.

Jennifer Dorian: And you will walk away knowing so much more. And especially as women, I know there are different chapters of our lives where extracurricular training can be a burden. But, and it's really hard for us, you know, whether it's, uh, caring for an elderly person or child rearing or just, you know, supporting a lot of people, it's hard to take advantage of extra training, but.

Jennifer Dorian: Just push yourself. Go for it because it really does propel you, I think, to new heights.

President Zak: Well, I'm going to add podcasts to that as well. Clearly WAB has some wonderful podcasts, um, as well as Agnes Scott. So that's a really good point. Let me ask you a question. People talk about success. What does success mean to you?

Jennifer Dorian: You know, I think it's a little bit of a Maslow's [00:19:00] hierarchy because the first thing I wanted to do. I graduated from college was be independent, right? And for many people that begins with graduating from high school. Um, so I know I come from a place of great privilege and good fortune, but I really wanted to, I want to be independent.

Jennifer Dorian: And I've been able to accomplish that. Uh, I think again, not only because that's a normal human craving, but seeing my mom be divorced, I really wanted to be an independent person, um, throughout my adulthood. And. So that's the first bar for me. The second is, you know, how do you help others? So are you, for me, like my life's work I think is about giving people and ideas wings.

Jennifer Dorian: Like I really feel like the reason I'm around is to help other people's ideas get forward while they're still fragile. Because ideas can be really fragile. People can be fragile, right? So, um, I feel like I have been living up to my being independent and then helping other ideas and people and concepts soar.[00:20:00]

Jennifer Dorian: Um, in an environment that And I think that people and ideas can be very fragile.

President Zak: I have to say, I am a listener of WABE, and I've noticed, um, over the past year, the branding with respect to Amplifying Atlanta. Um, tell me, how did you come to that? Yeah. Well, first

Jennifer Dorian: off, thanks for being a listener. We're so grateful.

Jennifer Dorian: As you know, So, WABE is a community run station. It's a non profit, and we report to the community. We have our FCC license for our, uh, broadcasting through the Atlanta Public School System, which is great, but we're a separate non profit agent of theirs to carry forth the work of public media. So that's one thing.

Jennifer Dorian: We literally are of and by the public. Um, and for the community. Second, we can amplify Atlanta because to a couple of different ways, we can give voice to the different people in our community. We can give voice to the issues and the facts that surround us. Um, and we can also amplify that outside of Atlanta.

Jennifer Dorian: [00:21:00] Um, every year, our WAB newsroom brings forth about 2000 original stories. Of local journalism and that's so important for all of us to hear, you know, civics, politics, education stories, environment stories, as well as they get picked up by the national NPR distribution. About 200 stories a year are picked up.

Jennifer Dorian: So we both serve our region and we also echo and, um, share what the Atlanta experience is like to the whole country.

President Zak: Well, I want to thank you, Rose Scott has been a wonderful friend to Agnes Scott. I appreciate you amplifying Agnes in the process as well. Well, as we come to a close, do you have any words of encouragement or advice for our listeners?

President Zak: Yeah, so many. Um, Um,

Jennifer Dorian: I think, you know, stay resilient, know that you're not going to be perfect all the time. That's I think one of the biggest lessons for me, maybe this happens to other people, we strive to be straight A students in [00:22:00] school. And I know when I got my first job review, I thought it was going to be like a report card.

Jennifer Dorian: I wanted to have straight A's, and I was, I was upset when I had areas I needed to work on. Um, so, you know, realize that the, your, your daily work life is not like a report card, and you're not going to, don't strive for perfection, strive for excellence, because perfection is highly overrated. Number one, we can't be innovative if we're striving for perfection.

Jennifer Dorian: Doing new things, new ways is always going to be messy. So I love this. What an amazing lesson. I love this. Yeah. And that's the first thing. The second thing is you're not going to be perfect in your personal life and your work life all the time at the same time. So getting used to, um, disappointing people sometimes.

Jennifer Dorian: I, I love my children so much and they're grown women now. And I, I never wanted to disappoint them, believe me, in my heart. I wanted to be, just provide everything for them all the time and never have them wanting. Okay. That's a terrible goal. [00:23:00] They would grow up not having any life experience, right?

President Zak: I have to say, as you were speaking, I'm thinking, wait a minute, that's what a college president is like.

President Zak: That's what we want for everybody. So I'm listening. I'm listening intently to your advice.

Jennifer Dorian: So here's the thing. This is so good. This is so true and so good. It's so good. Let people see you mess up, let people see you recover, and let people see you move on because then we're modeling resilience. And I know for me, this is really, I think, also a feminist issue.

Jennifer Dorian: For me it is anyway. I said, you know, at work you gotta make mistakes to learn. In personal life, we gotta make mistakes to be resilient and to model resiliency at home. And then, as women, I think our society only accepts women leadership that is about being the perfect woman. And I looked around at the guys as I was coming up and I was like, wait a minute, a lot of the guys I admire have swagger, have confidence, are shooting from the hip, they're big ideas, they're talking people into things, maybe they don't have all the facts, you know.

Jennifer Dorian: And I'm like, wow, that's an amazing [00:24:00] leadership model. I like that style better than always buttoned up, always perfect and guarded, right? So I think one, one of my personal missions is to model. Women leadership that's not coming from a place of being perfect and guarded and measured all the time. Like one of the people I really admire is Ann Richards from Texas.

Jennifer Dorian: She was the first female governor of Texas and she was just loud and opinionated and colorful and that was a different kind of leadership that I saw. So I would say to everybody, don't strive for perfection, strive for excellence. And model resiliency along the way.

President Zak: Jennifer, thank you for sharing your story with us to our listeners.

President Zak: Thank you for listening. I hope you are encouraged and inspired. Jennifer Dorian's journey is one of many that we're thrilled to share with you. Thank you to our producers, Sydni Perry, for making this podcast possible. I am Leo, Katie is Zach, and this is journeys to leadership.